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Batman versus Superman. If you want to talk about the movie

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Scalenex, Mar 30, 2016.

  1. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    After reading the critic's reviews I thought it'd be horrible. I found it slightly below what I consider par.

    There were one major problem. I did not like the whiny, nerdy, squirrely stuttering snot dripping take they took on Lex Luthor.

    The reason The Dark Knight was awesome is because Heath Ledger's Joker was awesome. The reason Batman and Robin was terrible was because Arnold Swarzenegger's Mr. Freeze everything was terrible. But villains make the super hero movie. It had a monster, yes. But a monster that doesn't talk or plan is not a villain.

    There were several minor problems. Ben Affleck wasn't a great a casting choice. Whoever they had playing Alfred was not a great casting choice. There were WAY too many dream sequences.

    Every controversial screen shot or mini-clip used to build up hype for the movie turned out to be a dream sequence, not part of the main plot.


    Second problem. Was the Idiot Ball. This happens when a lazy writer needs a character to do something stupid in order to achieve the event he desires. In every iteration of Batman, Batman is a genius. Superman is not an idiot. Lois Lane is not always smart in every version but lets assume a Pullitzer prize winning reporter (they mention this a lot in the Zac Snyder verse) is pretty bright. Wonderwoman has centuries of accumulated wisdom.

    The movie ends with Superman risking his life to recover a kryptonite spear from a deep rock filled pool then uses his last ounce of strength to kill the Kryptonian spawned monster.

    Heroic sacrifice and all that. Goes along with the movies heavy handed theme to make Jesus parallels with Superman.

    But let's look at the events that led up to this.

    Batman reluctantly decides Superman is not an enemy but a friend in need. He leaves his kryptonite spear on the ground and goes off to save Martha Kent. Picking up the spear would not have hindered his rescue mission. He's not sure where Superman is friend or foe. Eitherway. Leaving a Kryptonite spear unattended is a bad idea for tactical genius. Either he thinks he needs it as a weapon against Superman or he wants to keep it away from the bad guys.

    Superman's mom was in danger but Superman did not pipe up about the ONLY thing that can kill him being left unattended before flying off to fight the whozawhatit.

    Lois Lane resolutely picked it up after the heroes left. There is a bunch of weird stuff happening on the crashed Kryptonian ship. It might have crossed have crossed her mind that it would come in handy against whatever the McGuffin shoots out. But lets assume she is 100% focused on defending her boyfriend Superman. She throws the Kryptonite spear in a well or lake or whatever that is at the fight scene where national news showed Superman and Batman stopped scuffling. Ordinary people don't like diving down rocky pools but any supervillain could retrieve the kryptonite with minimal effort. Lois should have ran away with the kryptonite and hid it somewhere where the entire world didn't know where to look.

    Fast forward. Introduce monster and Wonderwoman. Batman figures they need Kryptonite to stop the monster. Oops, left it Gotham. Lets go to the cathedral we wrecked and lure the monster there. Hey Lois is still standing there. Don't want to ask Lois what happened to the Kryptonite. Lets not even mention it again while fighting in it's general vicinity.

    So Lois goes after the Kryptonite without telling the three nearby superheroes what she is doing. The building is hit (because Zac Snyder HATES buildings). Now she has to make a difficult swim while avoiding falling rocks. She grabs the spear but is prevented from resurfacing because rocks managed to block her resurface without crushing her. Superman's super hearing hears her struggling for air (but he missed the falling rocks and Lois jumping in the pool.) He saves Lois. Gets slightly sickened by the somewhat nearby Kryptonite. The he goes back for the spear and gets ready for his heroic sacrifice while Wonder Woman holds the monster at bay.

    Wonderwoman, unlike Superman is immune to Kryptonite.
    Wonderwoman, unlike Lois Lane is effectively immune to falling rocks.
    Wonderwoman is depicted differently by different comic writers but at best exactly as strong as Superman is.

    So Superman would probably have done a better job holding off the monster and Wonderwoman would have DEFINITELY been better at pulling Lois and the Kryptonite out of the conveniently placed deep pool of rock filled water.

    Given that the exploding Kryptonite killed Superman (or did it? unsurprisingly they implied at the end he may have lived) and he knew it probably would. Without Kryptonite sapping her strength, Wonderwoman could have driven the spear into the monster with more speed and strength. Heck she spent centuries training in Graeco-Roman warfare. She would be stronger, faster, and more accurate with a Kryptonite spear then Superman every would be. Then she could either leap away from the monster's death throws or just stand there and take it. Wonderwoman can handle a small Kryptonite explosion, she has taken bigger hits unscathed in the movie so far.

    But mostly I've never seen a good movie Lex Luthor. I like TV Lex Luthors. I liked him in Lois and Clark, Superman the Animated Series/Justice League, and Young Justice. Admittedly I never watched Smallville but from what I read about, he was nuanced and frightening.

    I like Gene Hackman but I don't like his Lex Luthor. Didn't like the guy in Superman Returns. Don't like this one. Lex Luthor HAS to be charming. Otherwise he is just a raving lunatic. You have to establish that he is an ordinary human standing up to a god. You need to build up enough sympathy with audience that they can related to him A LITTLE bit. He's the scrappy underdog who thinks he's defending the human race. If you don't have that he's a whiny nerd fruitlessly throwing stone at an American hero.
     
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  2. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    I agree with you on Lex Luthor, he was good in Lois and Clark and he was not just frightening in Smallville he was likable and very cunning, very well played by Michael Rosenbaum.
     
  3. Warden
    Slann

    Warden Tenth Spawning

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    I agree with all the above points, I have a little more to add about wonder woman.

    1) She was gorgeous, and I was happy to watch the movie just to see how good she looked in the role.

    Wonder-Woman-1.png

    2)
    1) if Wonder Woman wasn't in the story, Bruce would have still gotten his information about Lex and the other supers because she never would have stolen it
    2) if Wonder Woman wasn't in the story, the final battle with doomsday would still have ended with Batman and Superman killing him with a big spear

    What role did she really play to the story? Got it, she was a good looking addition to the story and all kinds of Easter eggs were being thrown in for the future Justice League movie. BUT she didn't actually advance the plot, single handely do anything that was necessary to the plot, or make any real changes other than do a bit of foreshadowing. I feel like if the writers had made up their mind and kept the movie focused on the storyline between Batman and Superman (like they were originally going to do...) and didn't try to add a million Easter eggs about the future Justice League movies it would have been a better story! They wasted enough time on foreshadowing, and without this extra fluff they could have focused on character development or something.

    If anyone has seen the Big Bang Theory episode where Sheldon/Leonard's world is torn down when they realize Indiana Jones had no actual effect in the storyline in Raiders of the Lost Ark you will see my point.

    1) if Indiana wasn't in the story, the Nazis would have still opened the ark and gotten killed
    2) if Indiana wasn't in the story, the Nazis would have found the original necklace anyway and gotten the correct height of the staff in the first place
    3) if Indiana wasn't in the story, the Nazis would never have been digging in the wrong place

    probably more, this is all I can think of.

    I wish the movie had been better. The dream sequences were confusing and disappointing, Lex as crazy for no reason when he should have been the misguided hero trying to save humanity from the aliens. It had potential but I shouldn't have been surprised. Mediocre movie at best.
     
  4. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    To answer your question. Wonder Woman was not placed in the movie purely for eye candy though she was not integral to plot (unless you used my common sense alternate ending). Lois Lane had a gratuitous fan service scene near the beginning and Lex Luthor had Mercy, his sexy bodyguard/assassin/assistant, so you didn't really need Wonder Woman in for that.

    Her purpose in the movie was to sell the studio's upcoming Justice League movie. Nothing more.
     
  5. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    And the extra merchandise, I saw a tv program and if I recall around 80% of revenue comes from merchandise not the movie so the more characters they can get in a movie the more they sell, sad really that a film is becoming nothing more than a marketing tool.
     
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  6. spawning of Bob
    Skar-Veteran

    spawning of Bob Well-Known Member

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    Did you buy any SoB dice after reading "the False Moon War"?

    If not, I'm going to fire my entire marketing department.
     
  7. Rednax
    Cold One

    Rednax Active Member

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    I'm pretty sure your the only person in said marketing department.
     
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  8. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    :D:D:D:D
     
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  9. Krox_v.2
    Razordon

    Krox_v.2 Well-Known Member

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    I watched Batman v Superman for a second time recently. And Snyder's divisive decisions and style aside, I think the biggest weakness of the movie is the fact it is the most comic book like of comic book movies. It reminds me of the very first issue of a story arc in a comic. By itself, it makes absolutely no or little sense. But when the other issues of the story arc comes out, it makes a lot more sense.
     
  10. kayejordanance
    Jungle Swarm

    kayejordanance New Member

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    I have Batman Vs Superman movie. watched full movie in HD on my showbox apk. try showbox official apk file here. you can download or stream with or without subtitle.
     

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