I've not played Warhammer in years and decided to come back and play Lizardmen, one of the possibilities which excited me was the maneuverability of skink skirmishers, especially with blowpipes as I thought double shots would be great. However, considering Javs get no penalty for moving and firing and if you double shoot with blowpipes you hit on 7s! This seems to mean that blowpipes are only good if you use your skirmishers as sacrificial units for getting into short range and taking out high toughness targets. Which of course is a valid use for them. I'm much more interested in using my skink skirmishers to hit n run and kite the enemy units e.g. march move to 11.5" away from enemy (outside of charge range) shoot, next turn if they move towards me, move back to 11.5", reform, shoot again. Is this sort of tactic possible and more viable with Javelins?
The main way I use my skink skirmishers to by moving them to the flank of an enemy and keeping them there. This way the enemy unit can't charge them, and the skirmishers can stay in close range and double tab to hit on 6's.(This will also make the enemy unit need to pass a leadership test if they want to march)
Ah that's interesting. Would this sort of flanking maneuver work against most armies? Or only high points cost armies like elves or chaos with a more accessible flank?
Works well with just about any army, HE and DE can be more of problem because they are fast themselves and if armed with bows they can swift reform and turn a unit of Skinks into little blue pincushions quite quickly.
It works easiest on the small elite armies that cant deploy across the entire table and have poor shooting. WoC, DoC, and Ogres come to mind. The elf armies its less effective as they just pivot and shoot you to death. OnG, skaven, BM, and empire armies usually cover the entire board and its hard to get around. Vamps and TK can usually just ignore your shooting and raise whatever you happen to kill. Dwarves just bunker in a corner and have no flank to speak of. Bretonnians you can usually get the flank but you wont get much shooting at the cav. They are just too fast and a misplacement on your part is usually some charged and dead skinks. Against other lizardmen it turns into whos skirmishers can kill the other persons fastest. I think that covers my views on all of the armies. You can make a skirmisher flank work really well in most games. Even if they go in and only kill a couple models before they die, they have hopefully taken a rank off the back of the unit. They are definitely a throw away unit that can do some damage when it needs too. I actually had a game where 10 skirmishers got charged by 30 frenzied marauders with great weapons. I killed 4 marauders with SnS then 2 more with SnS. The marauders killed 9 skinks and I made the double 1 to hold them up for another turn with one lone skink. Definitely worth the points that game.
I prefer to use skink skirmishers with the javelin and shield. I play them a little differently than most of the players here (I think). What I usually end up doing is marching them up (within close range) and shoot. If I can get into a flank, great. If not, I use them to redirect. I will run as many skinks as I can in the unit. Capping out at around 20. That way, I have 20 shots going into whatever I am shooting. This unit is pretty long and hard to manuever sometimes. The shield's parry save gives the unit a small chance of lasting more than one round of combat. Also, because the javelins are quick to fire, I always get my stand and shoot reaction. Sure, the double tap would be nice, but for me it is just not worth it. Sometimes I will take rank and file skinks and use them in the same way. Without marching and firing them. 25 skinks with full command will slow down a unit and effectively open them to a flank charge from something a little more powerful. It is even worth it (in my opinion) to take 10 skinks with a kroxigor and full command just so the unit causes fear. Take a cheap skink chief and give him the crown of command in the unit and it becomes a reasonably hard nut to crack. Granted, it is going to be destroyed by most unit after the first turn, but you should be able to set up a nice counter charge in that time. Not to rely on magic too much, but the Lore of Light can make this kind of tactic really work. For example, If you get the first turn and get off the higher casting value of Birona's Timewarp, you can usually get into the enemy's flank on the second turn (or charge). I use chameleons exclusively for blowpipe shots. In larger games I will take 28-30 of them. 3 unit of 10 or 4 units of 7.
That sounds pretty nasty actually, so with a block of 20 skirmishers, you get 20 strength 3 shots which hit on 4+ at short range and then a 2nd volley when they charge you. Seems like a cohort would do this well too though and for 3pts less per guy.
You lose some mobility with the cohorts because they cannot march and shoot. However, they have a litte better (very little) staying power and can actually cancel ranks in a flank.
@Arli, I don't quite get how you make the 20 skirmishers (in 1 unit) work. So you were right about using them differently! You move them like a 'normal' (10-strong) unit of skinks, in front of your target unit and whenever possible in it's flank. Then you fire at will....and then? IMO, 20 skinks is too expensive. Any unit will take them down and sure they will take some casualties, but they will take down quite some points! Especially if you try redirecting with them... So, if possible, could you explain (again ) how you use them? Somehow I cannot get to your somewhat out-of-the-box-thinking . I guess I prefer to be inside the box The Hunted
20 skirmishers in one unit can be a little unwieldy especially if you try and have them 10 wide to get all 20 of your shots off. I usually run mine 10 strong but I have 3 or 4 units of 10. I also mix blowpipes and javelins. Blowpipes arent as consistant, but when the bad guy charges you and you stand and shoot and then he fails his charge and you unload 20 shots into him at close range it just feels sooooooooooo good.
I also run my skinks in units of 10 (11 or 12, if I have some spare points), because they are cheaper, more maneuverable and pretty much do the same. While it is awesome to see your opponent fail his charge and unloading a whole load of shots into him, this is a risk I am not willing to take! My support package (in an ideal world ), would be: 2x10 skink skirmishers 1x10 skinks 2x3 terradons 2x5-6 chameleons 2x1 Salamander+extra handler With this, I am sure I can hold my own in any battle, I will try to fit this in every list. But in lower points games I trim this down ofcourse . The Hunted
Generally when I use 20 skirmishers, I will line them up in 2 ranks of 10. Because it is unwieldy, I usually will not try for a flank. I will go for redirecting. I will march within close range, shoot my javelins. Then await a charge the next turn so that I can stand and shoot. With luck, I can move up my TG unit in range to use the slann's boosted leadership (10-with the banner of discipline). Hopefully, I can buff the skinks, but if not, at least the unit is turned away from my other units. Or even better, I have a unit ready to charge that now exposed flank. In 8th edition, I have found that my play style altered so that this strategy works pretty well. If I take only 10 or 12 skirmishers, I still use them the same way. I have a fairly good sucess rate with that strategy. It works well using cohorts as well. You just lose the march and shoot ability. I especially like holding up a major unit with a cohort unit with a skink chief with the crown of command. It is awesome to hold up a major unit with a few skinks, and do it reliably.
I do something similar. I drop the terradons and usually have 2x2 salamanders with extra handlers and I like to get one krox in the 10 skink block. People are overly scared of one krox to the point where they actually turn their flank to avoid it. Its strange. I do want to try the terradons some more in 8th. Ive only used them once or twice to not great effect. I think I just need to try them a little more. @Arli I also tend to use my skirmishers more as re-directors. I park them at long range for the back rank and shoot then take the charge and shoot, then shoot some more. If they get charged and wiped out oh well it cost me 70 points and now your flank/rear is open up to my saurus block.
I just can't say I'm willing to try this . But if it works for you->go for it! Terradons are suprisingly effective. They are faster than skinks, so can redirect pretty much everywhere where you need them too. Enemies fast cavalry is pretty much dead facing these guys, as are war machines (especially if you also have chameleons). They can charge fleeing units from 22", this is just so good...you declare a charge with your Hammer->they flee->then you charge with your terradons! Always fun to do My skinks are also redirectors, destined to die . I cheer at every kill they make Skrox unit(s)...especially small ones. I really want to like them, but with my support-package. I simply don't need them. There is nothing that my support package cannot deal with, so a small unit of skrox would add nothing to my army. A big unit of enemy infantry gets redirected to the point where my 'real' infantry gets stuck in. Support units tend to bite the dust vs my supporting cast. Anything in between gets eaten by my SCOR. Still, I want to like them , because I can also see them working for me.. The Hunted