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What is your favourite Star Wars movie?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by NIGHTBRINGER, Apr 16, 2015.

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What is your favourite Star Wars movie?

  1. Episode 1 - The Phantom Menace

    1 vote(s)
    3.1%
  2. Episode 2 - Attack of the Clones

    1 vote(s)
    3.1%
  3. Episode 3 - Revenge of the Sith

    4 vote(s)
    12.5%
  4. Episode 4 - A New Hope

    5 vote(s)
    15.6%
  5. Episode 5 - The Empire Strikes Back

    10 vote(s)
    31.3%
  6. Episode - Return of the Jedi

    11 vote(s)
    34.4%
  1. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    What's the best live action star wars movie?

    tumblr_lkjvt2kXpq1qzxzwwo1_500.jpg
     
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  2. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Empire, is probably still my favorite.
     
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  3. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Mine too. Return of the Jedi may have been able to compete for the top spot if it wasn't for the Ewoks!
     
  4. spawning of Bob
    Skar-Veteran

    spawning of Bob Well-Known Member

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    Hadyn Christenson made episode 3 for me. Cos he got horribly maimed.
     
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  5. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    When Episode 3 was on the verge of being released in theaters I had such high hopes that Jar Jar Binks was going to get horribly maimed or worse (better!). Such a squandered opportunity; damn you Lucas!
     
  6. Slanputin
    Carnasaur

    Slanputin Well-Known Member

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    I like the one where they travel the galaxy seeking out new life, boldly going where no man has gone before.
     
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  7. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    I was wondering when a Trekkie might make an appearance.
     
  8. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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  9. pendrake
    Skink Priest

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    I like the one that starts with a little kid who blows up a battleship and ends with him all grown up and chucking the evile! evile! Emperor down a power core chute.

    (It was an awful long movie...good? thing there were five intermissions.)
     
  10. LawGnome
    Chameleon Skink

    LawGnome Active Member

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    I think the better one is the one where a boy joins a rebellion, meets his father, and then has an extended flashback about how his father turned evil before finally confronting him and turning him back to good before he dies.

    Machete order is the best order.
     
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  11. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    haha... that's awesome. Episode I is clearly the worst of the lot, except for the lightsaber duel which is probably the best!
     
  12. NexS1
    Carnasaur

    NexS1 Well-Known Member

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    the correct answer is not an option.

    The correct answer is "ALL OF THEM"

    actually, none of them since they CGI'd IV, V and VI
     
  13. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    I don't like Hadyn Christenson but to be fair, if you watch Mr. Plinkett's review of the Star Wars movies on Red Letter Media (do not watch with minors in earshot), he pretty much proves that the directing and writing is so bad that the greatest actor in the world would not have been able to make Anakin look good.
     
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  14. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    That's true! I'm not saying he did a great job by any stretch of the imagination, but the cards were stacked against him right from the start. How do you feel his portrayal matches up against that of Jake Lloyd? Anakin was doomed from the start.

    At least they are not Jar Jar. By far the worst character in the entire franchise.
     
  15. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    I disagree. I will not doubt that the prequels would have been improved by Jar-Jar's absence, but that's not what was wrong with the prequels.

    See, Jar-Jar was something that didn't belong. But where George Lucas dropped the ball was not what he included, but what he didn't include. Phantom Menace lacked a protagonist.

    Luke Skywalker was a scrappy underdog the audience would cheer for. He was a backwards country boy so he got to learn about the galaxy at the same time the new Star Wars audience was able to learn about the Star Wars galaxy. His actions drove the plot. There is no one like that in Phantom Menace.

    It's not Qui-Gon, he's the stuff seasoned veteran. We can't identify with him

    It's not Amidala, she was remote royalty. It is possible to have a high level politician be a relateable protagonist but you did not really see her difficult decisions or struggles. For most of the movie she was pretending to be someone else.

    It's not Anakin. It is not a problem that he was a little kid (though I'd prefer a young adult or teenager), but it is a problem he didn't show up till halfway through the movie and he was dragged along by events rather than directing them


    The only possible protagonist would have been Obi Wan. BUT he sat out of the whole Tatoonine bit. He spent the Naboo portion following Qui Gon's orders. His personality was difficult to separate from Qui-Gon but Obi Wan was the responsible one. He did not want to trapeze through a desert planet with a bumbling semi-aquatic cartoon rabbit. He did not want to take a vulnerable young woman into a city of thieves. He didn't want to drag a little kid to a warzone and he didn't want to bet their future on said kid's ability to win a dangerous race.

    Now imagine Obi Wan was the wacky one, and why not give him emotions too. His stern surrogate father reigns in his excesses and we see the mentor-student bond. Then when Darth Maul kills Qui-Gon it means something. We can watch Obi Wan loss force him to mature fast. Obi Wan would be sympathetic and have interesting character growth. Then we could mirror the same social dynamic he had with Qui-Gon with Anakin.who Obi Wan picked up, not Qui Gon establishing their relationship which is what New Hope deal with.

    But it didn't work out that way. Without a human character to relate to and cheer for, our brains felt like disappointed. We didn't know why because you can't process a lack of a protagonist until after the fact so our disappointed brains looked for a scape goat. In fact with all the mono-tone emotionless characters, the ONLY character in Phantom Menace that had emotions was Jar-Jar so he stood out like a sore thumb attracting our subconscious ire.



    the rest of the flaws are details.

    -Why would the Trade Federation restrict trade. A Trade Federation would either be selling their own goods or charging taxes on trade. Either way they are losing money on the blockade before you factor in the expense of maintaining a big space blockade. Do you know how hard it is to surround a giant sphere? To surround someone in two dimensions you need about ten times as many soldiers. You would need at least 100 times that to blockade a sphere.

    -Naboo is the nicest, most fertile planet we have ever seen in Star Wars. Why would people start dying after being denied three days of space trade? Were the Trade Federation blocking medicinal shipments to fight space plague? I mean that would have been a far cooler story.

    -Why land the droid army on the other side of the planet from the capital?

    -What was the deal with the Senate needing proof of the invasion? They had a whole ship full of eye witnesses. Two witnesses were JEDI. They had recordings of their ship being fired on.

    -Why did the Jedi dress like New Hope Obi Wan. Brown robes were practical wear on a desert planet andLuke Uncle who was not a Jedi wore something similar. If the brown robes constitute a Jedi uniform why would Obi Wan be wearing it while trying to stay incognito? George Lucas (GL) feared we are so thick we wouldn't recognize a younger Obi Wan if he wasn't dressed the same.

    -Why make Anakin from Tattooine, was GL afraid we wouldn't recognize Star Wars if we didn't have a repeat setting. Obi Wan logically would not have hidden Luke on Darth Vader's home planet with his only living relatives and keeping his last name.

    -There was no reason to bring in Threepio and Artoo. GL feared we woudn't realize it was a Star Wars movie without repeat characters. The only repeat character we really needed was Yoda. He is the only character who would have realistically been involved in events AND look the same. On another level, the two droids are plucky comic relief which was made redundant with Jar Jar. If GL didn't try to shoehorn them together I'm guessing Jar Jar would have gotten less fan spite.

    -Phantom Menace was BEFORE the big war. Why not come back to Naboo with twenty Jedi? They were just sitting around. First Sith citing in millennium? He beat you both on Tattoonine. Well, okay, I'm sure you guys will do better on a separate encounter.

    -The big multi-pronged attack with the Gungans versus the droid army, the big ship battle, and the attempt to catch the leaders. Poor planning. if you take the central control ship all the droids stop. Nute Gunray would have been captured super easy and the Gungans wouldn't even have to fight. Lots of people died for no reason.

    -About three seconds after Artoo fixed the ships shields, they entered hyperspace. That means the shield wasn't really necessary, the engines were. the lasers kept hitting droids but missing the ship. Anyone else think that's weird. What about the fact that the blockade formed a ring like Saturn around the planet, they could have flown the ship around the blockade. Why did the skilled pilot evade the blockade by flying in a straight line?

    -Why didn't Amidala (or any of the good guys) fly back to Tatoonine and buy Shmi Skywalkers freedom. It's the least they could do for Anakin. In fact, Naboo could probably afford to buy the freedom of every slave on Tatoonine.

    -Making Anakin nine was a miscalculation on GL's part. Kids like to pretend to be Luke or Han Solo. A kid's imagination does not require them to identify with a child. This problem continued in subsequent movies. There was no reason to have a crew of kids clumsily holding training lightsabers. There was no reason to include a twelve year old Boba Fett.

    -Jar Jar was endemic of the problem that GL tried to appeal to every demographic in a ham fisted way.

    JJ was an attempt to appeal to 3-6 year olds but he annoyed everyone else. Samuel L. Jackson was an attempt to appeal to Black audience but his awesome acting style was muzzled with GL's insistence that every actor be a mono-tone emotionless robot. All the kids was an attempt to appeal to the 7-12 year old bracket but it seemed tacky and cheap to older Star Wars fans and cheaped both Darth Vader's and Boba Fett's mystique. Padme's exotic costume change was intended to distract female viewers who didn't care for action but it didn't hide her flat acting (not Natalie Portman's fault, other movies prove she CAN act, GL didn't let her). Padme's more revealing costumes were an attempt to provide fan service to older male viewers but got in the way of the exotic fashionistas who were distracted. The political plot was a bone thrown to the Star Wars expanded universe fans but the dry political debates turned off younger viewers.

    By trying to tentpole the movie to every possible group, everyone left mildly disappointed.

    -The pod race and the space battle had so much going on, our brains shut down. It just kept increasing in intensity. By the third prequel we were so inured to over the top action, the audience stopped actually fearing for the safety of the characters. I mean Empire Strikes Back had an exciting fight over the snow tying up the legs of the AT-ATs. Attack of the Clones had Anakin and Obi Wan jumping from flying car to flying car with no vehicle thousands of stories up dodging hundreds of tightly packed fast moving vehicles. After that I never took a vehicle or space fight seriously again.


    Oh yeah, Jar Jar ruined the movie...

    You can probably diagnose most of the above to no one wanting to correct George Lucas. You can see a lot of force smiles with the crew in behind the scenes footage. When he made episodes 4-6 he was establishing himself so he still had to take advice from those around him. It's also theorized that the divorce hurt his movies and that his exwife used to reign him in, but I doubt she was on the set much.

    Since so few people correctly diagnosed what was really wrong with the prequels. I am not even going to bother watching Episode 7. When I was 10-16 there was no bigger Star Wars fan than me.
     
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  16. LawGnome
    Chameleon Skink

    LawGnome Active Member

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    I agree with absolutely everything you said.

    You even made some excellent points that red letter media missed. Well done.
     
  17. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    @Scalenex : That is a very good write up. You bring up a lot of great points (including quite a few I hadn't thought of). I agree that the failure of Episode I cannot be wholly pinned on the shoulders of Jar Jar, but he still is the worst character in the entire franchise. I mean realistically who is worse? His presence could severely depreciate the value of any of the Star Wars movies, imagine him in Episode V or VI.

    This is a great point. Poor Shmi! It really makes no sense, except for the fact that they needed her positive influence removed so that Anakin could eventually fall to the dark side. Shmi grounded Anakin's darker emotions, BUT they should have found a solution that makes sense plot-wise.

    Disagree!!!! Keep the droids, get rid of Jar Jar. The droids provided comic relief, Jar Jar provided nothing but annoyance.

    Blasphemy!!!
     
  18. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    That reminded me of another thing I thought of when I first watched the movie. Anakin's pod was the only pod left intact after the race. In the gambling a racing pod was seen as decent collateral for a slave (though implied that Anakin was worth more). Qi Gon pretended it was his pod. After it was literally the only racing pod left, the price should have increased. They could have sold the pod and used that money to buy Shmi right then.

    My point is the droids made Jar Jar more annoying by comparison. If you left them out that would reduce Jar Jar's annoyance by at least 10%. I thought Threepio was annoying in the sequels. He makes me wonder why they kept dragging him around. The comic interlude of Threepio's head winding up on a battle droid completely destroyed all tension and drama in the battle. That's a problem that episode 2 and 3 had that episode 1 managed to avoid (Lucas had to save that problem in reserve so each prequel could be worse than the last). Mixing lowest common denominator slapstick comedy into the most climatic battles removed all the drama.

    See reply about each new one being worse than the last.
     
  19. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    I think just about everything about those scenes made little sense. They should have come up with a more realistic reason for Shmi not being set free, or remove her character in a different fashion.

    I actually like the droids throughout the entire series, and Jar Jar would be annoying no matter what. A lot of Star Wars fans love the droids and they are a staple of the series. Jar Jar just seemed unnecessary and out of place. If they had removed the droids, many Star Wars fans would have been complaining about their absence. If they had simply not created Jar Jar, the movie would have been better. You may hate the droids in the prequels more than Jar Jar, but most fans would passionately disagree.

    I think Episode I is the worst of the lot. In terms of quality (from best to worst) I'd order them V, VI, IV, III, II and finally I. Episode VII represents a fresh new start, anything is possible. Imagine forgoing Christopher Nolan's Batman series because the two previous movies (with Val Kilmer and George Clooney) were so exceedingly horrible. Though Episode VII continues the main story, I feel it will have a very unique feel and style compared to those that came before it. Whether it will be good or not... who knows? But I for one can't wait to find out.
     
  20. rychek
    Troglodon

    rychek Active Member

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    I agree with most of what is being said regarding Jar Jar and the droids. The plot holes are myriad and there is no question in my mind that the biggest problem with the prequels was George Lucas himself. We have plenty of proof that most of the lead actors actually have skill in their craft. They were obviously not allowed to fully employ said skill in these movies. That being said, we can't completely blame George (as the director) for wooden acting on the part of the Jedi. The Jedi Order is the epitome of Stoicism. They are not supposed to feel emotions, let alone show them; which makes the portrayal of a Jedi a difficult thing to make emotionally engaging.

    IMO, Qui-Gon's flat characther was a very good portrayal of a cannonically correct Jedi. Obi-Won's charachter (in Ep. I) had just enough emotion to be believable as a Padawan Learner and his more reserved charachter in Eps II and III were also what I expected them to be. Anakin was never even close. He was constantly showing excessive emotion that was conventiently glossed over because, hey, Chosen One. The rest of the non-Jedi charachter's flat portayals I lay at George's feet.

    In regard to Ep. VII; George had a script which was included in the Disnay sale. Disney declined to use it and wrote their own instead. This simple fact gives me hope for the future of Star Wars.

    http://www.cinemablend.com/new/How-George-Lucas-Star-Wars-7-Ideas-Were-Used-By-Disney-69271.html
     

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